[R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
Gerard M. Keogh
GMKeogh at justice.ie
Tue Mar 3 11:37:35 CET 2009
Ajay,
I think this is somewhat unnecessary!
For regular SAS users PROC SUMMARY/MEANS is the data manipulation staple. A
SAS user interested in R will look at "Intro to R" and find it recommends
"tapply" for data manipulation jobs. This is a problem - tapply just isn't
simple and obvious.
A better option would be for the "Intro to R" to link to Bob Muenchen's
original 80-page document "R for SAS and SPSS users", page 52 where the
"summarize" function is described.
Gerard
Ajay ohri
<ohri2007 at gmail.c
om> To
Greg Snow <Greg.Snow at imail.org>
03/03/2009 04:58 cc
"Gerard M. Keogh"
<GMKeogh at justice.ie>,
"r-help-bounces at r-project.org"
<r-help-bounces at r-project.org>, R
list <r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch>
Subject
Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS
Programming
for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive
analytics world for 3 plus decades.
I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
It basically is meant only for SAS users who want to learn R ,
without upsetting the schedule of the corporate users.
Simply put , it is a wrapper on SAS language using the function
command...ie procunivariate function in "Anne" package would call the
summary function and so on...
Regards,
Ajay
www.decisionstats.com
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Greg Snow <Greg.Snow at imail.org> wrote:
This does not really address my point. Yes, if the few nerds who want to
do funny stuff are the ones making the purchase, then there is a good
chance (but still not guaranteed) that they will get IML, but do all
companies that buy SAS actually think about that, or do they just see the
extra price (no matter how low), or not even think to look at that piece
because the person making the purchase does not really the funny things
you can do with it.
If you want your SAS code to be able to be run by anyone with SAS, you
cannot assume that they have IML. If you want your R code to be run by
anyone, you cannot make your code dependent on packages/tools that are
not available for all platforms.
--
Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
Statistical Data Center
Intermountain Healthcare
greg.snow at imail.org
801.408.8111
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerard M. Keogh [mailto:GMKeogh at justice.ie]
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM
> To: Greg Snow
> Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list; r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>
> Yes Greg,
>
> but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty cheaply - SAS
> think
> it's only for a few nerds out there who wan to do funny stuff.
>
> G
>
>
>
> Greg Snow
> <Greg.Snow at imail.
> org>
> To
> Sent by: "Gerard M. Keogh"
> r-help-bounces at r- <GMKeogh at justice.ie>, Frank E
> project.org Harrell Jr
> <f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu>
>
> cc
> 27/02/2009 19:05 "r-help-bounces at r-project.org"
> <r-help-bounces at r-project.org>,
> R
> list <r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch>
>
> Subject
> Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS
> Programming
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But SAS/IML is not part of base SAS, it costs extra, so there is a good
> chance that a user that has SAS will not be able to run code that uses
> SAS/IML.
>
> I have known of SAS programmers who know IML well that still write
> matrix/vector tools using macros or proc transpose so that a user
> without
> IML can still use the code (the fact that the code that started this
> thread
> was found on a website, suggests that it was meant for general use
> rather
> than something only used internally where you know what add-ons will be
> available).
>
> Just another way that R makes life easier for both programmer and user.
>
>
> --
> Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
> Statistical Data Center
> Intermountain Healthcare
> greg.snow at imail.org
> 801.408.8111
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: r-help-bounces at r-project.org [mailto:r-help-bounces at r-
> > project.org] On Behalf Of Gerard M. Keogh
> > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:19 AM
> > To: Frank E Harrell Jr
> > Cc: r-help-bounces at r-project.org; R list
> > Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
> >
> > Yes Frank, I accept your point but nevertheless IML is the proper
> place
> > for
> > matrix work in SAS - mixing macro-level logic and computation is
> > another
> > question - R is certainly more seemless in this respect.
> >
> > Gerard
> >
> >
> >
> > Frank E Harrell
> > Jr
> > <f.harrell at vander
> > To
> > bilt.edu> "Gerard M. Keogh"
> > <GMKeogh at justice.ie>
> > 27/02/2009 13:55
> > cc
> > R list <r-
> > help at stat.math.ethz.ch>,
> > r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> >
> > Subject
> > Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS
> > Programming
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gerard M. Keogh wrote:
> > > Frank,
> > >
> > > I can't see the code you mention - Web marshall at work - but I
> don't
> > think
> > > you should be too quick to run down SAS - it's a powerful and
> > flexible
> > > language but unfortunately very expensive.
> > >
> > > Your example mentions doing a vector product in the macro language
> -
> > this
> > > only suggest to me that those people writing the code need a crash
> > course
> > > in SAS/IML (the matrix language). SAS is designed to work on
> records
> > and
> > so
> > > is inapproprorriate for matrices - macros are only an efficient
> code
> > > copying device. Doing matrix computations in this way is pretty mad
> > and
> > the
> > > code would be impossible never mind the memory problems.
> > > SAS recognise that but a lot of SAS users remain familiar with IML.
> > >
> > > In IML by contrast there are inner, cross and outer products and a
> > raft
> > of
> > > other useful methods for matrix work that R users would be familiar
> > with.
> > > OLS for example is one line:
> > >
> > > b = solve(X`X, X`y) ;
> > > rss = sqrt(ssq(y - Xb)) ;
> > >
> > > And to give you a flavour of IML's capabilities I implemented a SAS
> > version
> > > of the MARS program in it about 6 or 7 years ago.
> > > BTW SPSS also has a matrix language.
> > >
> > > Gerard
> >
> > But try this:
> >
> > PROC IML;
> > ... some custom user code ...
> > ... loop over j=1 to 10 ...
> > ... PROC GENMOD, output results back to IML
> > ...
> >
> > IML is only a partial solution since it is not integrated with the
> PROC
> > step.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > Frank E Harrell
> >
> > > Jr
> >
> > > <f.harrell at vander
> > To
> > > bilt.edu> R list <r-
> > help at stat.math.ethz.ch>
> >
> > > Sent by:
> > cc
> > > r-help-bounces at r-
> >
> > > project.org
> > Subject
> > > [R] Inefficiency of SAS
> > Programming
> > >
> >
> > > 26/02/2009 22:57
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to
> > > program in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US
> > > Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and
> > > reporting for hospital outcomes at
> > > http://www.qualityindicators.ahrq.gov/software.htm . The
> PSSASP3.SAS
> > > program is a prime example. Look at how you do a vector product in
> > the
> > > SAS macro language to evaluate predictions from a logistic
> regression
> > > model. I estimate that using R would easily cut the programming
> time
> > of
> > > this set of programs by a factor of 4.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > --
> > > Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of
> Medicine
> > > Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt
> > University
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > R-help at r-project.org mailing list
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> > > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> ***********************************************************************
> > ************
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine
> > Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt
> > University
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > R-help at r-project.org mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-
> > guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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