[R] Mixed models fixed effects

Emma Stone Emma.Stone at bristol.ac.uk
Fri Mar 13 11:07:53 CET 2009


Hi Thierry,

Thanks, my data are pasted in below: n = 48, with different numbers if site 
replicates.

   Site passes length width height ohwidth ohheight style shape nogap pgaps
1     1     32  38.21  7.18   2.60    0.00     0.00     1     1     0  0.00
2     1      7 154.38  2.55   2.43    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  0.00
3     2     24 130.00  2.73   4.96    5.83     2.27     1     2     0  1.92
4     2     43 130.00  2.73   4.96    3.45     2.45     1     2     0  1.91
5     2     32 130.00  3.30   4.34    3.67     2.63     3     2     0  0.00
6     2      9 130.00  3.30   4.34    2.13     1.53     2     2     0  0.00
7     2     25 214.00  1.65   6.23    2.80     2.53     3     2     0  0.00
8     2      1 214.00  2.20   1.05    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  0.00
9     2     57 188.00  5.87   4.97    3.23     2.13     2     2     0  0.00
10    2     32 211.00  2.63   6.09    4.37     2.50     2     2     0  0.00
11    2     14 211.00  2.63   6.09    3.50     2.53     2     2     0  0.00
12    3     78 192.00  2.30   2.40    0.33     0.88     2     2     0  2.19
13    3     11 192.00  2.50   2.50    0.13     0.55     2     2     0  2.19
14    3      9 444.00  2.10   1.93    0.00     0.00     2     1     2  6.19
15    4     40  44.00  1.83   2.05    0.00     0.00     1     1     1 31.81
16    4    112  44.00  1.58   1.73    0.00     0.00     1     1     1 31.81
17    4     23  98.00  2.18   1.70    0.00     0.00     1     3     0  2.55
18    4     23  98.00  1.78   1.60    0.00     0.00     1     1     0  2.55
19    4      4  84.00  1.73   1.98    0.00     0.00     1     3     1 17.02
20    4     72  88.00  3.30   5.30    3.30     1.45     1     2     0  0.00
21    5    207 116.00  3.08   3.38    3.65     3.68     1     2     0  0.00
22    5      2 116.00  2.85   2.18    3.18     3.53     1     2     0  0.00
23    5     81 104.00  2.68   2.78    1.00     0.75     2     1     0  0.00
24    5      3 104.00  2.68   2.38    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  0.00
25    5     21  59.00  2.78   4.03    2.23     1.75     2     2     0  6.78
26    5      1  59.00  2.78   3.33    1.38     1.35     2     2     0  6.78
27    6     82 165.56  2.50   4.00    1.00     1.33     1     2     0  0.00
28    6      1 165.56  2.60   3.63    0.50     1.40     1     2     0  0.00
29    6     46  69.35  3.23  10.67    4.73     4.67     1     2     0  0.00
30    6      7 165.56  3.50  10.17    2.67     1.67     1     2     0  0.00
31    6     45 136.00  3.33   3.67    0.00     0.00     1     2     0  2.20
32    6      3 136.00  3.33   2.75    0.00     0.00     1     2     0  3.30
33    6     34  82.00  2.83  12.00    3.33     3.83     1     2     0  0.00
34    7      0 228.00  2.57   2.70    0.30     1.00     2     2     0  0.50
35    7    148 228.00  3.08   4.68    0.75     1.75     2     2     0  0.05
36    7      0 208.00  2.40   2.90    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  1.44
37    7     38 208.00  2.57   2.63    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  1.44
38    7      0 112.00  2.13   1.65    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  0.50
39    7      0 192.00  1.55   1.55    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  0.00
40    7      0 132.00  1.56   1.41    0.00     0.00     2     1     0  0.00
41    8     52 148.00  5.05   7.62    2.55     3.38     2     2     0  0.00
42    8     18 148.00  4.08   5.80    0.65     0.63     2     2     0  0.00
43    8     19 210.00  3.08   4.58    0.70     0.88     2     2     0  1.42
44    8      0 210.00  3.68   4.90    0.25     0.38     3     2     0  1.42
45    8      3 246.00  2.18   2.43    0.00     0.00     2     1     3 15.24
46    8      0 246.00  1.93   2.20    0.00     0.00     2     1     3 15.24
47    8      3 142.00  1.60   2.03    0.00     0.00     1     1     3 26.19
48    8      0 142.00  1.37   1.87    0.00     0.00     1     1     3 26.19
   habitat side  oharea hvolume
1        1    2    0.00  713.30
2        1    4    0.00  956.62
3        1    2 1720.43 1760.30
4        1    4 1098.83 1760.30
5        1    4 1254.77 1861.86
6        1    2  423.66 1861.86
7        1    1 1515.98 2199.81
8        1    3    0.00  494.34
9        1    2 1293.42 5484.69
10       1    3 2305.18 3379.52
11       1    1 1868.41 3379.52
12       1    2   55.76 1059.84
13       1    4   13.73 1200.00
14       1    1    0.00 1799.53
15       1    1    0.00  165.07
16       1    3    0.00  120.27
17       1    2    0.00  363.19
18       1    4    0.00  279.10
19       1    4    0.00  287.73
20       1    2  421.08 1539.12
21       1    2 1558.11 1207.61
22       2    4 1302.15  720.71
23       2    2   78.00  774.84
24       1    4    0.00  663.35
25       1    2  230.25  661.00
26       1    4  109.92  546.19
27       1    3  220.19 1655.60
28       3    1  115.89 1562.56
29       1    1 1531.88 2390.09
30       1    3  738.22 5893.11
31       2    2    0.00 1662.07
32       4    4    0.00 1245.42
33       5    3 1045.82 2784.72
34       1    2   68.40 1582.09
35       1    4  299.25 3286.48
36       1    2    0.00 1447.68
37       1    4    0.00 1405.89
38       4    3    0.00  393.62
39       4    1    0.00  461.28
40       4    1    0.00  290.35
41       1    4 1275.61 5695.19
42       1    2   60.61 3502.27
43       1    1  129.36 2962.34
44       1    3   19.95 3786.72
45       1    1    0.00 1303.16
46       1    3    0.00 1044.52
47       1    2    0.00  461.22
48       1    4    0.00  363.79


--On 13 March 2009 11:01 +0100 "ONKELINX, Thierry" 
<Thierry.ONKELINX at inbo.be> wrote:

> Dear Emma,
>
> Have you tried a simpler model? False convergence can be due to an
> overcomplex model. Can you give a brief outline of your data? E.g. how
> many sites, how many data per site, ... Cross tabulations of all pairs
> of factor variables are usefull too.
>
> HTH,
>
> Thierry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> ir. Thierry Onkelinx
> Instituut voor natuur- en bosonderzoek / Research Institute for Nature
> and Forest
> Cel biometrie, methodologie en kwaliteitszorg / Section biometrics,
> methodology and quality assurance
> Gaverstraat 4
> 9500 Geraardsbergen
> Belgium
> tel. + 32 54/436 185
> Thierry.Onkelinx at inbo.be
> www.inbo.be
>
> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more
> than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to
> say what the experiment died of.
> ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher
>
> The plural of anecdote is not data.
> ~ Roger Brinner
>
> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not
> ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of
> data.
> ~ John Tukey
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Emma Stone [mailto:Emma.Stone at bristol.ac.uk]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 13 maart 2009 10:50
> Aan: ONKELINX, Thierry; Emma Stone; r-help at r-project.org
> Onderwerp: RE: [R] Mixed models fixed effects
>
> Hi Thierry,
>
> That's great thanks!
>
> I have done as you have said but I keep getting a warning message here
> is
> my code:
>
> G1Hvol<-glmer(passes~hvolume+style+habitat(1|Site),family = poisson)
>
> And this is the message i get:
> Warning message:
> In mer_finalize(ans) : false convergence (8)
>
> any ideas??
>
> Emma
>
>
> --On 11 March 2009 15:45 +0100 "ONKELINX, Thierry"
> <Thierry.ONKELINX at inbo.be> wrote:
>
>> Hi Emma,
>>
>> Continuous predictors are no problem at all. You can mix both
> continuous
>> and categorial predictors if needed. I suppose your response are
> counts
>> (the number of bats that passes)? In that case a generalised linear
>> mixed model is more appropriate. With the lme4 package you could try
>> something like this:
>>
>> library(lme4)
>> Model <- glmer(BatPasses ~ Width + Height + (1|Site), family =
> poisson)
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Thierry
>>
>> PS There is a mailing list dedicated to mixed models:
> R-Sig-MixedModels
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> ir. Thierry Onkelinx
>> Instituut voor natuur- en bosonderzoek / Research Institute for Nature
>> and Forest
>> Cel biometrie, methodologie en kwaliteitszorg / Section biometrics,
>> methodology and quality assurance
>> Gaverstraat 4
>> 9500 Geraardsbergen
>> Belgium
>> tel. + 32 54/436 185
>> Thierry.Onkelinx at inbo.be
>> www.inbo.be
>>
>> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no
> more
>> than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able
> to
>> say what the experiment died of.
>> ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher
>>
>> The plural of anecdote is not data.
>> ~ Roger Brinner
>>
>> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does
> not
>> ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of
>> data.
>> ~ John Tukey
>>
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> [mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org]
>> Namens Emma Stone
>> Verzonden: woensdag 11 maart 2009 15:29
>> Aan: r-help at r-project.org
>> Onderwerp: Re: [R] Mixed models fixed effects
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> This may sound like a dumb question but I am trying to use a mixed
> model
>> to
>> determine the predictors of bat activity along hedges within 8 sites.
> So
>> my
>> response is continuous (bat passes) my predictors fixed effects are
>> continuous (height metres), width (metres) etc and the random effect
> is
>> site  - can you tell me if the fixed effects can be continuous as all
>> the
>> examples I have read show them as categorical, but this is not covered
>> in
>> any documents I can find.
>>
>> Help!
>>
>> Emma
>>
>> ______________________________________________
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>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>
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>> bevestigd is door een geldig ondertekend document. The views expressed
> in
>> this message  and any annex are purely those of the writer and may not
> be
>> regarded as stating  an official position of INBO, as long as the
> message
>> is not confirmed by a duly  signed document.
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> Emma Stone
> Postgraduate Researcher
> Bat Ecology and Bioacoustics Lab
> & Mammal Research Unit
> School of Biological Sciences,
> University of Bristol, Woodland Road,
> Bristol, BS8 1UG
> Email: emma.stone at bristol.ac.uk
>
>
>
> Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen geven enkel de visie van de schrijver
> weer  en binden het INBO onder geen enkel beding, zolang dit bericht niet
> bevestigd is door een geldig ondertekend document. The views expressed in
> this message  and any annex are purely those of the writer and may not be
> regarded as stating  an official position of INBO, as long as the message
> is not confirmed by a duly  signed document.



----------------------
Emma Stone
Postgraduate Researcher
Bat Ecology and Bioacoustics Lab
& Mammal Research Unit
School of Biological Sciences,
University of Bristol, Woodland Road,
Bristol, BS8 1UG
Email: emma.stone at bristol.ac.uk




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