Apologies to all for the multiple posting. Don't know what caused it. Maybe it _is_ time to stop using Nabble after all... Regards, Mark. -- View this message in context: http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/lmm-WITHOUT-random-factor-lme4-tp3384054p3386833.html Sent from the R help mailing list archive at Nabble.com.